Friday, May 02, 2008

Thoughts about MS

Someone who volunteers at FCCO clinics, and there is one Sunday in Philomath, has MS. It got me to thinking, after the last clinic, about MS. She talks about the fire in the brain that occurs during a flare up, that the thought in treatment is preventing damage. MS sufferers are heat and exercise intolerant.

So, I begin to wonder, is MS an endocrine system issue, a failure of internal temperature regulation glands and hormones? In other words, has the thermostat failed?

Is it a cooling system malfunction? A coolant leak? Failure of the radiator, so to speak, or fan? Blood circulation in the brain must be one primary cooling system. Does not enough blood get in and out of the brain? Or does the blood not cool properly in the lungs during exchange? Are the walls of arteries in the brains of MS patients maybe too thin, dissipating the heat of the blood into the brain? I know, probably these are illiterate questions that would make any scientist roll his or her eyes.

Do MS patients sweat properly and lose heat in that manner? Is it a skin issue?

Or, is it an insulation issue of the brain, too much, too little.

If a heavy current load is placed on wires that are too thin to carry the load, excess heat is produced. Or, if too much of a load is put onto one circuit, for any reason, without a circuit breaker, excess heat results.

I think, if I remember high school biology at my ripe age, brain neurons make connections by jumping synapses. If they don't connect, does that just keep firing, creating heat as it does, in attempts to connect? Does the connector wander out of alignment or distance, to enable a correct firing, creating short circuits that fry the lipid neural insulators? If so, why?

As you can see, I really have no clue what I'm talking about. What melts the insulation on wiring? Either overheating of the wire itself, from overload, or sources of heat or chemical reaction exterior to the insulator. As for exterior damagers, acids, parasites, molds, anything that feeds on whatever nerve insulators are made of. Yes, I'm roaming back and forth from the physical world into the brain tissue world, at will, without any real knowledge of either.

I remember the old adage, if you're cold, put on a hat.

Maybe MS patients develop thicker skulls, or lay down more bone, or higher density bone in the skull, so heat cannot pass out through the head. If you're cold, put a hat on. If you're hot, take the hat off.

I'm sure all these mechanical malfunctions as possible causes have been thoroughly researched. I believe scientists now think MS is possibly a virus or genetic.

Here is something vastly intriguing: the long time diehard researcher, into ALS, a deadly form of MS, got ALS. Coincidence? Fate? Or is this disease somehow "catching" in some manner.

That is Twilight Zoney in a way, that he got ALS, after spending decades doing research on the disease and treating patients. Makes ya prickle.

But, what if.....

What if, he really knew all along, somewhere, in his brain, one of them, that he would get the disease and as a form of bodily self-defense, his brain, one of them, drove him into ALS research?

I say "one of his brains" for this reason. I heard or read somewhere that we really have two brains. Where is the other one? In our digestive tract. That's right, our intestines have a brain. What does it do? I don't think anyone knows for sure yet. Maybe it runs our internal world. Maybe it really runs the whole show and our skull brains are there to direct our external interactions and movement through the external world. And maybe that internal control panel knows a lot more than our external control panels do about ourselves and our ultimate fates and out of a desire to survive, does some decision making on its own.

Puts a whole new meaning to the term "gut feeling".

What if that future researchers gut already knew, before he became a researcher on ALS, that he would ultimately get ALS, how would it have known? Well, that might be the ultimate clue in solving MS and ALS.

Another eery coincidence occurred when a young man living in a U of O dorm room got MS. The next guy who moved into the same room, also got it. How strange is that? Almost makes one wonder if isn't some menningicochal like disease, in a way. A mold. Something in the environment some are more prone to catching by inhalation, or other means, than others.

There are clusters of MS too, which is always bizarre. The mid valley of Oregon is one of these clusters.

Is there something we are exposed to, a toxin, that is stored in the neurotransmitter insulators? I've heard toxins hide out in body fat. Even estrogen is stored in body fat I heard. What if toxins do? What if there is a toxin stored in fat that hates heat or reacts under heat to irritate and destroy protective tissue surrounding neural transmitters. What if some people's body's also contain said toxin but don't react in the same manner? What if skinny people concentrate toxins in fat but they don't have that much fat so toxins that concentrate in body fat don't have many options in storage areas so skinny folks are more prone to toxin storage in thing like neurotransmitter insulation tissue?

So I guess, if considering toxin etc, causation, knowing the history of MS, when it is first recorded and where, would be very important.

Again, my illiterateness in science is glaring.

So I also wonder about this, does MS create a problem only in sending information to the rest of the body/spinal cord, or does MS destroy nerves in the spinal cord, too, below the skull? So, if a person's brain tissue was totally destroyed by MS, no ability for the brain to communicate with the muscles, organs etc, can the body's muscles and organs still be stimulated to function lower down than the head?

I don't know much about this, as you can see.

7 comments:

  1. WE all have a substance called myelin which to say it as easiest as I can, is kind of like a covering or insulation for nerves. Thus, the electrical impulses to the brain go faster and are helped by the myelin covering our neurons and other parts of our neurological system. It's kind of like a conduction system. In NS, the myelin disappears due to inflammation - which creates all kinds of problems, just as open wires do when we peel them off - only these are inside our bodies!


    The mystery is what causes the inflammation. Figure that out and you might win the Nobel prize! The cause is still not known and so there are all kinds of theories. Most scientists think it is a problem with the immune system and while genetic research continues, no one can say for certain that it is a genetic issue. (If you read Michael Cricthon's new book - Lost I think the name is- you will see that may well be a good thing. In the US at least - and I am digressing here, 20% of the genome is already privately owned , meaning some corporation or a university owns people's cells! And in some cases their genes that have say, saved them from cancer. There have been actual court cases by people who due to get control of their bodies back. It's very scary stuff and ethics seems to be going out the window in many of these research studies. The other downside is if you have genetic tests done and it is discovered you have a gene for a certain illness, at least in a country with a for profit health care system, an insurance company will find another reason not to insure you - and they have enough already!

    Back to MS.

    In MS it is thought a foreign agent such as a virus alters the immune system so that the immune system perceives myelin as an intruder and attacks it. The attack by the immune system on the tissues that it is supposed to protect is called autoimmunity, and MS is then seen as an illness of autoimmunity. While some of the myelin may be repaired after the assault, some of the myelin disappears and nerves are stripped of this covering. Scarring also occurs, and material is deposited into the scars and forms plaques. (Sort of asimilar to arteriosclerosis)

    What interests me is that certain populations either do not develop MS ever or have a VERY low incidence. These include but are not limited to (I am just thinking of some off the top of my head) -European gypsies, Eskimos and African Bantu, Native Indians of North and South America and Japanese. Other Asians have very low rates as well. It is a very Caucasian illness.

    Live so many diseases, there are varying types of MS:

    Relapsing–Remitting (RR) MS, the is the most common. Patients experience a series of attacks followed by complete or partial disappearance of the symptoms (remission) until another attack occurs (relapse). It may be weeks to decades between relapses.

    Primary-Progressive (PP) MS is worse. There is a continuous, gradual decline in a patient's physical abilities from the outset rather than relapses.

    Those with Secondary-Progressive (SP) have a steady decline - and some with the 2nd types will develop the third.

    Many MS patients take interferon (which is also used in leukemia) but other meds- steroids and so forth are also used. The effects are often worse than the disease.

    Personally, I think the research that is working to develop myelin holds the best hope. If as babies - we knew we had a predisposition to the disease - we had stem cells removed before we were born, we might save them to allow new myelin to grow. Currently, one can take nmyein from another part of the body but if MS has already stated, it may be too late. We all have stem cells but the fetal ones can be developed into ANY kind of cells which is why they are so significant.

    ALS is a completely different kind of illness.It is rather like Alzheimer's or even CJD tho CJD is created by proteins and is much more cruel tho just as deadly. I actually have a cousin who died of CJDvar (the new kind) and it was the worst death I have ever witnessed! Or one of them anyway - maybe because this was someone I loved.

    A retired pathologist in Toronto believes that many of the Alzheimer illnesses he has seen are in fact CJD. I am slowly beginning to wonder if he has a point? CJD is the human version of BSE and there have been human deaths in Canada and the US -contrary to what you might hear.

    Anyway - sorry to end on asuch a down note. The research is interesting tho. I'd love to discover something that will kill prions which unlike viruses and bacteria, can NEVER die. Even equipment used on patients who have CJD has to be discarded in some deep place (sort of like radiation almost!). My cousin for example- and others who die of it- cannot be buried because of the extreme toxicity!

    I hope this helps or intrigues you in some way. All of these are nasty illnesses, the last ones worse than MS even but I would not wish MS on anyone. One tho can at least live with MS, even if it is diffiocult and has no known cure. It can be managed. The others kill you and there is NO cure no matter what you do.

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  2. So ALS is not a form of MS? I thought it stood for anterior lateral sclerosis. What does MS stand for? Mylination or something sclerosis, or?

    I have heard theories that many diagnosed with Alzheimers actually have had CJD caused by BSE. Quite frightening. Prions are very scarey. I don't know much about the differences. Bacteria attack outside the cell, right, while viruses live within a cell? I know it is far more common than we believe. Elk hunters in the US die of CJD after contact with Elk infected with what Fish and Wildlife call "chronic wasting". This seemed to have its start in wild populations much the same way mad cow is spread--when elk, deer, moose are game farmed, or on canned hunt ranches, then escape. The game are fed unnatural diets that can include the same elements cows have been fed that develop mad cow--in other words, chicken shit, chicken feathers, other cows, etc. When game escape the wild game farms and canned hunt ranches, they spread the disease.

    I overheard a conversation between two people, one of whom works at a local hospital. She was talking about how a coworker told her to come on up to a certain floor of the hospital if she wanted to see someone dying of mad cow. That was right in Corvallis several years ago, but the news never was in the paper or anywhere else.

    Here's the other weird thing that floats the net sometimes. Some people seem to believe that cows carry a form of leukemia (virus caused) and that there is a link between eating beef as kids and childhood leukemia. Have you ever heard that one?

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  3. Those who don't get it likely have an immunity to the inflammation agent, developed over long periods, before white people came to the regions, without the immunity?

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  4. For anyone reading these comments, siobhan is a cat loving doctor practising in Canada.

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  5. So if the body is attacking mylin, I wouldn't necessarily think some virus alters the immune system only to perceive mylin as "threat". I would be more convinced something accumulates in the mylin that the body perceives as "threat" and then attacks.

    But this one MS patient I know said her doctor heat is a factor, and that treatment is designed to minimize damage by "quenching the fire" at the first sign of onset. But maybe by that he meant the fire caused by short circuits one the sheath is damaged or destroyed.

    I heard stress also can trigger symptoms. What does stress do? Increase heart rate and heat maybe? By increasing blood supply in preparation for fight or flight?

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  6. Sorry for the delay - I am on call and it is a busy day!

    MS stands for multiple sclerosis. It means that there can be multiple attacks by a virus or some agent on the body.

    Yes, I have heard the thoughts re leukemia and am not certain I buy that one if only because I study that area myself.

    I am more afraid of CJDvar (which is the new type that causes younger people - like my cousin, in her 50's, to die rather quickly- she was diagnosed after seeing 9 neurologists and other specialists and all they could ask her was did she eat meat in England? (Trying to suggest I think that it could not possible have occurred because of beef or other meat she ate in Canada or the US! Suuuuuuuuuuuuure!
    There is a type of CJD that has occurred for ages- regular CJD but it takes years to die from and is quite similar to Alzheimer's and does not affect younger people. CJDvar can affect people even in their teens. I personally know of one dying of it in Fla right now. My parents in Fla have a neighbour who was diagnosed with Alzheimer's but he died in under 6 months (like my cousin) so I have my doubts that it was actually Alzheimer's.

    You know, I never gave much thought to CJD even in my work - which is most with children and hematology and AIDs and hemophilia and of course my occasional stints with Drs. without Borders where one sees just about everything you never imagined or I did not in any case. When my cousin died, it was akin to when you hear a new word and suddenly see it everywhere. (I think because one is now aware of it.) I was devastated by her loss- she was one of those people who lit up a room, literally - and I could not believe she died of CJDvar!!

    But I kept hearing of patients with CJD. I was at a medical conference and a friend - a doctor and administrator's told me and another friend, a psychiatrist - you guys are going to think I am crazy but I have three cases of CJDvar and the govt wants me to keep secret about it. I assured her we believed her! So, thus, the death certificates are never listed as such. It might say heart attack or some other symptom that was secondary to the illness when it should have read Heart Attack secondary to Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease!

    You can read about Stanley B. Prusiner, who won the Nobel prize for discovering Prions and there is a page here on his work http://www.mad-cow.org/Nobel.html#Tiny

    One of best known essays is in Scientific American and I will see if I can find it. I may have to email it to you. It is online but one must have a subscription to SciAm. (I hate that!) Don't knock yourself about science - you are quite knowledgeable and thoughtful in it, more than many peple I meet!

    In the meantime, there is this article:

    http://blog.wired.com/wiredscience/2007/01/what_really_cau.html

    Here is another site that I have looked at tho I do not agree with everything they suggest since the scientist in me prefers to see well done studies. But I like the fact they are asking questions and bringing info out in the open. I am not keen on conspiracy theories or people who get involved in these issues mainly for their own gain and there may be some of this in a few of the sites here. So it is like anything else, reader beware. The case of the woman with what is suggested as CJDvar in Va is intriguing though!

    There is also a man whose name I forget - whose book I dled - about Mad Cow in the US mainly.
    http://www.organicconsumers.org/madcow.cfm

    This may be it:

    http://www.organicconsumers.org/madcowbook.htm

    Again, when I have time, I'll look and email it to you. I have it in pdf format.

    I have to get back to work! (yikes, I write way too loooong, sorry!) I hope you are having a good day and that tooth is not bothering you!!!!

    Oh and yes, heat can make MS worse as can stress. But stress makes almost any illness worse, depening on the individual.

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  7. Thanks Siobhan. I must be having senior moments. I've always known what MS stands for. Comes with writing posts in the middle of the night, already exhausted, awakened by hissy spitty kitty tifts, and after splitting up the combatants, turning on the PC, to poorly write barely thought out posts or responses. Oh well.

    Thanks for all the websites. I do love a mystery, whether it be the mystery of disease origin or anything else.

    I'm sorry you lost your cousin to such a horrible disease. I quit eating beef long ago, realizing how unhealthy it is. I don't believe in most conspiracy theory stuff. What I do know is people with money at stake will often go to great unethical lengths, disregarding all others, to maintain their own wealth.

    Anyhow, get back to work! Hey, have you read about Oregon's own Senator Ron Wyden, who has proposed what many see as a workable universal health care plan. I don't know many details, but to hear his name and what he is attempting, and know he's from Oregon, makes me feel very proud.

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